The guest of this episode of “Eylül Aşkın İle,” hosted by Eylül Aşkın, was lawyer Musa Toprak, who serves as the founding president of the Italy-Turkey Friendship Association Casa Italia, established to fill the gap left by the closure of the Italian Cultural Center in Ankara in 2017.
In our interview held in the library of the Casa Italia building located in Ankara’s Ayrancı district, we discussed with Musa Toprak the importance of soft power in cultural diplomacy, with examples specifically from Turkey and Italy.
“If you ask me what should be done to reduce violence against women and children, I would say culture and the arts.”
Emphasizing the crucial role of cultural and artistic activities in strengthening social cohesion and solidarity, Toprak said, “People often tell me, ‘What does that have to do with it?’ Because we expect a surgeon syndrome — we want someone to come, intervene, and fix the problem immediately. But it doesn’t work like that; it requires a very long-term struggle. And for that, you need resilience. What gives people that resilience is each other. And what sustains that connection between us is cultural activities, art, and philosophy.”
“Our compass is determined by Ankara University.”
Musa Toprak explained that the content of the events held at Casa Italia and the Italian language courses offered are directly determined and supported by the Italian Department of the Faculty of Language and History at Ankara University. He said, “Our department head, Professor Nevin Özkan, Professor İlhan, and other professors continuously guide us on what we should do and where we should focus. At the same time, since they are people who closely follow Italy, for instance, next year is the anniversary of this or that person’s birth in Italy, and they have declared this event in Italy. We follow the events announced by Italian cultural institutions, particularly those related to specific years, such as Dante, and we also organize similar events.”
“We have the best vegan cuisine in the world, but we’re known for meat.”
Musa Toprak expressed his dissatisfaction with the fact that Turkish cuisine’s richness isn’t sufficiently recognized internationally, and that it’s only known for kebabs and lahmacun. He mentioned that, in fact, by focusing on dishes made with olive oil alone, we could position Turkish cuisine as the best vegan food market in the world. “Start with kisir (bulgur salad), bulgur meatballs, stuffed grape leaves… In other cuisines, they’re trying to make a version without meat, but in Turkish cuisine, the olive oil dishes alone cover this gap. For example, Italians know couscous, they’ve started learning bulgur, kefir has spread a lot, but if you tell someone that Turkish vegan cuisine is like heaven, they’ll ask, ‘Is there Turkish döner?’ That’s the first question they’ll ask. Because we are known for kebabs, döner, and lahmacun.”
Toprak also emphasized that we don’t defend our national dishes and values enough, saying, “Why do we call lahmacun ‘Turkish pizza’? I don’t understand. If you told an Italian pizza chef, for example, ‘Make Italian lahmacun,’ they’d probably use violence. I mean, they would certainly throw you out, and they might even beat you. But we easily let go of things like simit, calling it ‘Turkish bagel,’ why? For Italian mozzarella, we write ‘Some type of white cheese’ in tourist places, but they would never write that. If you’re curious, they say, ‘Eat it and learn, buddy.’”
“A country strong in cultural diplomacy gains a commercial advantage from this.”
Musa Toprak stated that one of the most significant outcomes of cultural diplomacy positively affecting relations between two countries is the commercial advantage gained by the country strong in cultural diplomacy. He explained this argument by saying, “When I meet with Italian diplomats, I always emphasize: Cultural relations are not just about culture, they also significantly affect trade. Since I studied in Italy for my master’s, for example, I currently drive an Italian car. I could have bought another car, but my emotional connection to Italy, my fondness, influenced my choice.” He shared his personal experience to elaborate on this.
A Rush of Students from Turkey to Italy!
Musa Toprak noted that the positive cultural interaction and communication built between the two countries have also positively affected education tourism between them. He stated that one of the main reasons Turkey has been sending a significant number of students to Italy in recent years is the long-standing positive progress in Italy-Turkey cultural diplomacy and the sympathy the Turkish people feel toward Italy, even if they’ve never been there. He considered Italy to be a very successful example in cultural diplomacy. Referring to the historical period after the Roman Empire, when Italy was not a strong military country, Toprak attributed Italy’s ability to remain one of the largest countries in Europe by land area to its creativity, productivity, work ethic, and its success in cultural diplomacy. He said: “The fact that Italy, as a country, is so influential in Europe, economically impactful, and continues to exist is a clear indicator of how important soft power is.”
“Turkey’s biggest shortcoming is insufficient promotion and not embracing its values!”
Musa Toprak pointed out that Turkey’s biggest shortcomings in cultural diplomacy are insufficient promotion and the failure to embrace its own values. He supported this argument with the following: “For example, Nazım Hikmet is a very well-known poet in Italy. If you just say Hikmet, Italians know him, but no one knows that Hikmet is Turkish.” He criticized the fact that we don’t feel the need to defend our own values and important people who grew up on our land internationally, unless there’s some opposition. Toprak emphasized the importance of embracing and preserving our cultural heritage, highlighting that Italy is very successful in this regard, as it has never let its national values be undermined. He stated that this is one of the most important elements of cultural diplomacy among the public.
